Hello Everybody,

How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?
The US Supreme Court has ruled long ago that Americans have
the freedom to do that, regardless of how disgusting such
an act may be, or how offensive others may find it. This
is granted to them by the First Amendment, and the justices
have deemed this right as not a mere privilege for a select
few.

So why is it that a man in Iowa was convicted, and
sentenced, to 15 years in prison, for burning the flag?
How in blazing hell did he manage to do that? His original
sentence was only five years. But since he was deemed a
habitual offender, his sentenced was tripled. Imagine
that. 15 years, for burning the flag. On grounds it was
a hate crime of arson. You see, the flag represents a
sexual orientation. And we can't have that in America,
the Land of the Free, can we?

https://tinyurl.com/yxxunfb6


Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other
flags had previously been burned, but details were not available.

My guess is that the only flags that are open game are those
that are red/white/blue. Burning others are a hate crime, and
would grant you decades in prison.

--Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?

In the spirit of liberal lawlessness, I say we let em go. If he burns a transgender person, then we should lock em up.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)

Re: Burning the Flag
By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm

Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other

I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was puchased by and owned by someone else.

Not to go down that rabbit hole, but I dislike the burning of the flag. The flag did not cause the transgression. It is a representation of all of us. It's not perfect like us. If some one has an issue, it is usually with a peron or persons of the govenment, not the country.

Our country gives you the freedon to burn such items, as long as it is in a legal manner. This country also gives you the freedom to leave if it makes you that angry.

Grease
darkmatt.synchro.net


... Earn cash in your spare time -- blackmail your friends
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> (1:106/101)

Hello Aaron,

How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?

In the spirit of liberal lawlessness, I say we let em go.

Burning the LGBT pride flag is regarded as being a hate crime
since the flag represents a sexual orientation. That is what
makes it a hate crime of arson.

People who have been convicted of hate crimes should do the time.
No excuses. Such crimes should never be ignored, as if they had
never been committed. How do you think the LGBT community would
have reacted had the defendant told the judge, "I was only joking"
- with the judge agreeing by throwing all charges out the window?
Talk about a mockery of justice.

If he burns a transgender person, then we should lock em up.

The LGBT pride flag represents far more than just transgender
persons. Burning their flag is a form of hate speech, which
makes it a hate crime. In this case, a hate crime of arson.
Since the convicted individual was a habitual offender, his
sentence was tripled. 15 years, for burning the flag.

There are only two countries in the world that make burning
their national flag a crime - Iran and North Korea. I am sure
there are many people in the US who believe the US flag should
also be protected in the same way. This is supposed to be the
land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
a US flag.

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
a US flag.

What's wrong with protesting a Transgender flag? Why is that a hate crime,
but it's not a hate crime when people burn American flags? When they burn the Transgender flag, they're showing hatred for Transgendered people. When they burn the American flag, they're showing hatred for me and my country. Let's fire up ol' sparky for both of them, why don't we?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)

Lee Lofaso wrote to aaron thomas <=-

Burning the LGBT pride flag is regarded as being a hate crime
since the flag represents a sexual orientation. That is what
makes it a hate crime of arson.

"Hate Crime" is "Thought Crime", or to use Scott Adams' term: Loserthink.

The idea of "hate crime" is based on the misconception that you can tell what a person is thinking at the time he does the crime. That is simply stupid.

A crime is a crime and can be prosecuted no matter what the person "thought" as he was committing it.

The LGBT pride flag represents far more than just transgender
persons. Burning their flag is a form of hate speech, which

There's no such thing as "hate speech". There's just speech and the First Amendment says that we have freedom of speech.

"Hate speech" is just something that the ignorant Left (oops, that's redundant) made up to suppress speech that they don't like since "hate speech" is applied to any speech that they disagree with.

There are only two countries in the world that make burning
their national flag a crime - Iran and North Korea. I am sure
there are many people in the US who believe the US flag should
also be protected in the same way. This is supposed to be the
land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
a US flag.

Then we can stomach having a small number of misfits burn the LBGT flag too. That's called "Freedom of Speech".

Freedom of Speech applies mostly to unpopular speech, because popular speech doesn't need such protection.


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS bbs.dmine.net:24 1:275/89 (1:275/89)

On 12-24-19, WILL MILBERGER said to LEE LOFASO:

Re: Burning the Flag
By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm

Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other

I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was WM>puchased by and owned by someone else.

Not to go down that rabbit hole, but I dislike the burning of the flag.

Burning an American flag is not even considered a crime. In fact it is `protected' as *free speech*.


Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!


A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.


---
*Durango b301 #PE*
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)

On 12-24-19, WILL MILBERGER said to LEE LOFASO:

Re: Burning the Flag
By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm

Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other

I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was WM>puchased by and owned by someone else.

And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!


In fact, a protester in front of Maxine Waters's LA office opened a door to
her offices, grabbed an American flag from within and it was set afire!


Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!


---
*Durango b301 #PE*
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)

Re: Burning the Flag
By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:06 am

Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!
A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.

I think that is what started this thread. The thing about it is, he took it from a church that was displaying it. It wasn't one he went and bought. So I believe that is what made it a "hate" crime. It is his reaction to it and then taking it and burning it.

If he bought the flag at Wal-Mart and stood in his front yard and set it alight, there would have been no problem. Unless there was a burn ban in his county.

Just my .02c worth.

Grease
darkmatt.synchro.net


... Just a little thoughtfulness brings alot of happiness.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> (1:106/101)

Re: Burning the Flag
By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:14 am

And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire! Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!

I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in accordance with it being old and worn.
In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and burning it.
But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Grease
darkmatt.synchro.net


... All right, so I like spending money! But name one other extravagance.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> (1:106/101)

Hello Will,

TR> And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin'
America-haters
TR> will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!
TR> Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well
TR> have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!

I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in
accordance with it being old and worn.

I did it. Once. Actually, I gave somebody else the idea, and he
did it. Back when I was in the boy scouts. One of us (not me) had accidentally dropped the flag into a puddle of mud, and we decided
it was not worth the effort to clean it up as it was a very old flag.
So I mentioned that it would be best to destroy the flag as it was
unusable. One of us (not me) provided a match, and somebody else
(not me) set the flag on fire. The scoutmaster then came screaming
out of his house with words none of us understood, and then we had
a lot of explaining to do. But really, it was all his fault. He
had been the one who told us the proper way to retire a flag was
to burn it. Only, it was his flag, and he was a veteran. So, he
had no choice but to forgive us, which he did. With tears in
his eyes.

In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and
burning it. But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Well, the owner did allow us to use it ...

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello Will,

Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!
A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.

I think that is what started this thread. The thing about it is, he took it
from a church that was displaying it. It wasn't one he went and bought. So
I believe that is what made it a "hate" crime. It is his reaction to it and then taking it and burning it.

If he bought the flag at Wal-Mart and stood in his front yard and set it >alight, there would have been no problem. Unless there was a burn ban in his
county.

According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

Apparently it made no difference whose flag it belonged to, or that
it had been stolen, or even that it was burned. The fact that it was
a symbol of sexual orientation is what did the guy in. Had he pissed
or defecated on it, he would have been convicted of the "hate crime
of whatever_the_judge_wanted_to_call_it". Same harsh sentence.

Had he done that with a US flag of the red, white and blue variety
he would have been seen by some as being a hero.

--Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 29 Dec 2019, Lee Lofaso said the following...

According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

Right there that is what is terribly wrong with the left, and this is also why they fail, and will continue to do so.

Looking at the Flag as a symbol of sexual orientation.
and
Thugs looking at the flag as symbol of police brutality.
All because they want to blame somebody else for problems that they
themselves created. So they look at the flag and think this is what I will
use as a jumping off point.

All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can't deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for what the colors truly mean.

. ______ ���������Ŀ ��������Ŀ �������Ŀ �����������������Ŀ
_[]_���ij� � Fidonet � �FSX Net� � Trump � � Another Message �
{ NET 267 � �1:267/150� �21:1/127� � Train � � by Gregory �
/ 00����00'-����00���00�٨���00��00�٨���00�00�٨����00��������00����

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Hello Greg,

According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

Right there that is what is terribly wrong with the left, and this is also
why they fail, and will continue to do so.

Since you believe it is okay for folks to burn the LGBTQ+ flag,
then it must also be okay with you for folks to burn the US flag.
Otherwise, it would be a double standard. One for your kind, and
one for their kind. No more "One God, indivisible, with liberty
and justice for all" in existence any more. For anybody.

Looking at the Flag as a symbol of sexual orientation.

That is how the judge looked at it. And that is how the judge
decided to rule on the matter. He found the defendant "guilty"
on all counts of the "hate crime of arson" and sentenced him
to 15 years hard labor in the state penitentiary.

and
Thugs looking at the flag as symbol of police brutality.

Unfortunately, police brutality is not a hate crime. But it
most defintely should be. However, no thug will ever be sentended
to prison for burning the US flag. After all, every judge knows
what the US flag really means (oppression for black folks).
Much better to let them burn the US flag than beat up police
who are trying to do their job.

All because they want to blame somebody else for problems that they >themselves created.

Say wha'? Betsy Ross was a WHITE woman! Black folk want to have
a Kwaanza flag! Not one of those red, white and blue thingies!
Much more colorful, with more colors, almost as many as the LGBTQ+
flag. That is what is needed for America to make it great again!

So they look at the flag and think this is what I will use as a jumping off
point.

Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single
black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
flag. And they never burn their own flags.

All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can't
deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for
what the colors truly mean.

What do the colors truly mean?

Let's start with the US flag -

Red
White
Blue

Put them all together, and what does it mean?
Justice! Equal Justice for All!

Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
Let's find out -

Red
Orange
Yellow
Green
Blue
Purple

Put them all together, and what does it mean?
Pride! Gay Pride!

Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
or a thankful nation filled with pride?

--Lee

--
Laying Pipe Since '88

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 31 Dec 2019, Lee Lofaso said the following...

Hello Greg,
Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single
black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
flag. And they never burn their own flags.

Interesting you mentioned hippies, you know who else was unemployed to the
age of 45 not to mention homeless, Bernie Sanders.

All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can
deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for what the colors truly mean.

What do the colors truly mean?

Let's start with the US flag -

Red
White
Blue

Put them all together, and what does it mean?
Justice! Equal Justice for All!

Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
Let's find out -

Red
Orange
Yellow
Green
Blue
Purple

Put them all together, and what does it mean?
Pride! Gay Pride!

Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
or a thankful nation filled with pride?

There is the problem. You missing the point of pride element that one can not process pride with the Red White and the Blue.
To some this makes me a bigot, gun carrying - threat.
So be it.

. ______ ���������Ŀ ��������Ŀ �������Ŀ �����������������Ŀ
_[]_���ij� � Fidonet � �FSX Net� � Trump � � Another Message �
{ NET 267 � �1:267/150� �21:1/127� � Train � � by Gregory �
/ 00����00'-����00���00�٨���00��00�٨���00�00�٨����00��������00����

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Hello Greg,

Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single >LL>black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
flag. And they never burn their own flags.

Interesting you mentioned hippies, you know who else was unemployed to the
age of 45 not to mention homeless, Bernie Sanders.

That was a long time ago. When he still had hair.

LL> >All because you see what you want to see and all of this because
they can
LL> > deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for
LL> > what the colors truly mean.
LL>
LL> What do the colors truly mean?
LL>
LL> Let's start with the US flag -
LL>
LL> Red
LL> White
LL> Blue
LL>
LL> Put them all together, and what does it mean?
LL> Justice! Equal Justice for All!
LL>
LL> Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
LL> Let's find out -
LL>
LL> Red
LL> Orange
LL> Yellow
LL> Green
LL> Blue
LL> Purple
LL>
LL> Put them all together, and what does it mean?
LL> Pride! Gay Pride!
LL>
LL> Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
LL> or a thankful nation filled with pride?

There is the problem. You missing the point of pride element that one can
not process pride with the Red White and the Blue.

Are you saying, or suggesting, that Americans have no pride?
I'll have you know there are lots of LGBTQ+ folks who have their
pictures on US postage stamps. And to date, nobody that I know
of has ever set fire to a single postage stamp (although the
post office did make it impossible to lick the stamps).

To some this makes me a bigot, gun carrying - threat.
So be it.

Shooting up postage stamps sounds like lots of fun. But expensive.
Especially since the price keeps going up ...

--Lee

--
Our Nuts, Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 12-28-19, WILL MILBERGER said to TIM RICHARDSON:

Re: Burning the Flag
By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:14 am

And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!
Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!

I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in WM>accordance with it being old and worn.
In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and WM>burning it.

But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I was around when people were first burning American flags in the sixties, and nobody got put in prison for 16 years over it that I ever heard.


And they used to snatch them right off businesses along the street or even off peoples' lawns, and squirt lighter fluid on them and light them off.


Nobody went to prison over it.






---
*Durango b301 #PE*
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 | QWK by Web | BBS.FIDOSYSOP.ORG (1:123/140)

Re: Burning the Flag
By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Mon Jan 06 2020 02:12 am

Nobody went to prison over it.

Somebody did, or there would not have been the Federal Flag Desecration Law, passed in '68 by Congress. Was basically in effect until 1989 when the Supreme Court struck it down in Texas v. Johnson

Grease
darkmatt.synchro.net


... I never used to be able to finish anything, but now I
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> (1:106/101)

Hello Tim,

But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

I was around when people were first burning American flags in the sixties, and
nobody got put in prison for 16 years over it that I ever heard.

And they used to snatch them right off businesses along the street or even off
peoples' lawns, and squirt lighter fluid on them and light them off.

Nobody went to prison over it.

Nobody can burn the US flag any more now that they are all
made in China out of flame retardant material.

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello Will,

Nobody went to prison over it.

Somebody did, or there would not have been the Federal Flag Desecration Law,
passed in '68 by Congress. Was basically in effect until 1989 when the Supreme Court struck it down in Texas v. Johnson

It was a split decision. Not unanimous. If the makeup of the
USSC continues its trend to the right, becoming a 7-2 conservative
majority, expect the flag issue to be raised again, with a far
different outcome.

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)